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Talk:Federation credit
Use of Federation Credits at Quark's on Deep Space 9 Is this canon? When was it acknowledged on screen? - Taduolus 22:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC) :Never. I came in here to point that out. So without further ado... :Thus, Federation officers could buy drinks at Quark's without owning a single bit of latinum. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine) :I removed the above line as it's never been mentioned --Morder 09:18, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::Actually, the use of Credits WAS mentioned. In "Caretaker" (VOY) Quark tried to get one over on Ens. Kim and at one point, when Kim asked the price he'd pay, Quark said "cash or credit" and held up a pad for a thumbscan (which is how credit transferrs were shown to be done).Capt Christopher Donovan 09:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :Thanks Captain Donovan, I'll update it to reference Voyager instead of DS9. --Morder 09:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::No need, I already fixed the article. :)Capt Christopher Donovan 09:49, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::Wouldn't "credit" in that context mean a bar tab, not a Federation credit? Quark mentioned a few times about characters paying(or not) their bar bills(Morn, Bashir, O'Brien) and wanting credit( ). I don't think we can be sure that credit meant a Federation credit(a form of cash).--31dot 09:55, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::::Has a "cash" form of Federation credit ever even been established? Wouldn't cash be the federation credit exchanged to latinum in that context. --Pseudohuman 10:06, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::I added two other cites that referr to Federation/Quark exchanges to reinforce the claim that Quark can/will do business in Credits. Since the Credit is the means by which Federation citizens (and thereforst Starfleet, a Federation organization) transact their business, the only rational explanation is that Quark is dealing in credits. The line "cash or credit" in that context is similar to asking the DENOMINATION of the payment. Example: I go to a bar in France and order a drink and ask "How much?" The bartender, hearing my accent and knowing I'm American might well ask "Francs or Dollars?" (or "Euros or dollars" these days).Capt Christopher Donovan 10:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::I think we need to differentiate between small c credit and big C Credit. A Federation Credit is a form of currency, so wouldn't that be included with "cash"? Since Quark offers lines of credit, asking "cash or credit" would give the option of either paying with currency or with a line of credit. :::I'm not saying Quark doesn't accept Federation credits, I would think that he would. I'm saying that in that example, that's not what he was asking.--31dot 10:21, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::::To me everything stated about the Federation Credit indicates that there is no actual cash or money involved as we know it, that it is just a "number in an account database" and nothing more. --Pseudohuman 10:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::Quite true. That is, though, different than a line of credit(I'll pay you the latinum/dollars/Credits later)--31dot 10:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::::31dot is right, I think. In the context of "cash or credits", it doesn't make sense to assume "currency" as the meaning of the word "credits", even if that may exists somewhere in the Trek universe. A simple replacement test - replace "credits" with any other currency and see if it makes sense in context: :::::*Cash or US Dollars? :::::Doesn't make sense... -- Cid Highwind 12:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::::It's not that straight forward, the cash is latinum and would be comparable to gold in the real world. So the line would sound in the real-world more like: "gold or dollars" and you would flash your credit card as you hadn't exchanged your dollars into goldbars for the occasion. =) --Pseudohuman 13:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::::Well, if we really need to go into full "semantic analysis" mode... "Latinum is cash" would have been a true statement, but "cash is latinum" is not. One word (here:latinum) is referring to a subset of the objects the other word (here:cash) refers to, so it isn't possible to just replace one with the other as you did (see Wikipedia:Hyponomy). -- Cid Highwind 13:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::::I meant, the cash in this context is latinum. I thought that was obvious. Apparently not. --Pseudohuman 13:25, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::::I know what you meant... However, it really doesn't matter what exactly the thing is that is being transfered "as cash", whether it is latinum, gold or some other substance. In the phrase "cash or credit", the "semantic class" of "cash" is FORM-OF-PAYMENT, so the class of the other word "credit" needs to be FORM-OF-PAYMENT, too, or it wouldn't make sense to concatenate one with the other using "or". It can't be of the class CURRENCY. :::::So, what's being talked about is not the currency "Federation Credits", but the form of payment where a debt is generated. -- Cid Highwind 13:36, 27 May 2008 (UTC) Merge Wikipedia's article with this? Hey, I was wondering if the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_credit) should be transferred over here? It includes a lot of detailed information that isn't on this article about Federation credits, and since this is Memory Alpha, isn't it better that the more in-universe stuff be here instead of on Wikipedia? :Normally we can't just transfer content from WP to here, as they use a different license than we do. From what I can gather reading it quickly a lot of it seems to be original research(I see one such tag in the article, along with "does not appear" which suggests speculation), which is not permitted here. Even ignoring that stuff, I'm not certain what is on that page that is missing here or from the money article. 31dot (talk) 03:20, April 7, 2013 (UTC) Multiple article issues A number of things need to be addressed in this article: TNG: "The Price" never makes a single reference to credits, Federation or otherwise. Any references to this episode on this article are misplaced. They may be worth noting in the money article. "Although it was stated on more than one occasion that the economy of the future was very different, and that money no longer existed in the Federation as late as the 24th century, (Star Trek: First Contact) some sort of medium of exchange did still exist, and could be accessible to Federation citizens (see Other mentions below)." - This paragraph is literally using its own article as a citation, and seems to serve less as a definition of the subject and more a preemptive rebuttal. Key is the fact that this has nothing substantive regarding the specific denomination of currency the article is purportedly about. "In the 24th century, some establishments would not accept Federation credits. (DS9: "In the Cards") This explains why Jake (the son of a Starfleet officer, who would have had access to credits) was nonetheless unable to directly bid for the Willie Mays baseball card." - This is needlessly convoluted logic, as in the episode itself Jake clearly and simply states that he has no money. That does not merit the whole-cloth extrapolation above. Most importantly, no mention is made of any particular form of credits, Federation or otherwise. "James T. Kirk stated that the Federation Starfleet had a lot invested in both him and Commander Spock. In fact, Starfleet had 122,200 plus credits invested in Spock by the end of 2267. (TOS: "Errand of Mercy", "The Apple") " - Neither cited episode makes mention of credits, and in each case it is not clear that the investment in question is necessarily money, as opposed to time or energy. Spock's numerical figure is likewise non-indicative since he was cut off before finishing it. "In 2267, the mirror universe Kirk attempted to bribe prime universe Spock with "credits" – indicating that the Terran Empire currency was also referred to as the "credit" – promising that Spock would become a rich man and would have a command of his own, in an attempt to gain release from the brig. (TOS: "Mirror, Mirror")" - Poor reasoning ("Imperial credits must be parallel to Federation credits, therefore both exist"), and in any event this belongs on a Terran Imperial Credit page and not here. "Shortly before his retirement in the 2290s, Montgomery Scott bought a boat. (Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country)" - much like Jake's "Sold a book" figure-of-speech on DS9, this is no indication that literal purchase occurred, and an any event, once again the term "credit" is never uttered. "In 2364, Beverly Crusher bought a roll of cloth and had her account on the USS Enterprise-D billed. (TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint")" - No mention of credits, though this could and should likely be moved to the money article. "The Federation would have paid 1.5 million Federation credits as a lump sum and then 100,000 credits every Barzanian year for the rights to the Barzan wormhole. (TNG: "The Price")" - Flat fabrication. Never happened. The rest seem to be legit references, so the article isn't a total wash. The below needs to be turned into a Background Info section: "Ronald D. Moore commented: "By the time I joined TNG, Gene had decreed that money most emphatically did NOT exist in the Federation, nor did 'credits' and that was that. Personally, I've always felt this was a bunch of hooey, but it was one of the rules and that's that." (AOL chat, 1997) A Constitution-class starship was stated to be worth several billion credits in the novel The Kobayashi Maru. In the DC Comics story "The Final Voyage", Spock's back pay was stated to be around 611,700 credits when the five-year mission ended. There are also many mentions of payment and currency in the TNG novel Balance of Power by Dafydd ab Hugh." 13:29, August 12, 2015 (UTC) :The last portion _IS_ a BG note already. -- sulfur (talk) 14:17, August 12, 2015 (UTC) "The Federation credit was the monetary unit of the UFP." Do we have a source for the very first line of the article? First of all, it makes it look like the "Credit" takes on the same role in the UFP as the Dollar does in the US. However many sources indicate that the Federation is a money-less society. Therefore I believe this sentence should at least be reworded such that the reader isn't immediately reminded of modern world capitalism. Changing out "the" for "a" would go a long way. It could say something like "credit was a monetary unit used in the UFP". This also ties into my second point: Does a thing like the "Federation Credit" actually exist? There are numerous mentions of "Credits" by Federation citizens, but do we have source that this "Credit" is a Federation-only currency? From all sources I looked at I did not get the impression that "Credit" is to Federation citizens like the Dollar is for US citizens. There are various explanations what the "Credit" might be and I don't see any source that tells us which of them is true: - It might be a non-Federation currency that is used by Federation citizens as well. - It might be A''' special Federation currency, which is not used for intra-Federation transactions, but only for trade with Federation outsiders. - It might be a form of currency inside the Federation, however in a currency system that differs largely from our known systems (like a currency you only need for luxury items - everything else is free). - Or it might be '''THE Federation currency in a system comparable to modern day capitalism. So my main issues are with the article saying that there exists a "Federation Credit" (while it might just be the (non-Federation) "Credit") and with the first line of the article suggesting that this Credit for the UFP is comparable to the Dollar in the US today. 19:59, May 16, 2018 (UTC)